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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Darkness & Magick   Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:21 pm

I just thought this would be a good place for a discussion on differing opinions...How do people classify Dark Magick? How do you feel about it? Is it wrong or evil in your eyes? How do you feel about people who practice it? This is just a general discussion, so if you do hate people who practice it, try not to slander their ways of life Smile
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Aaria
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:58 pm

depends what you mean by dark magick...like cursing people?
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:31 pm

Depends on what you think Dark Magick means...just explain how you feel about what you call Dark Magick...
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:28 am

Being very new to all of this, could someone define Dark Majick and Darkness please? It would be much appreciated. Smile
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:46 am

There are many different kinds of "Dark" magick...some people believe all magick to be dark, some believe it is the intent behind the spell or magick that defines dark magick, some believe that some methods of magick cannot be anything but dark magick...

An example of this is Necromancy: it is widely known nowadays as bringing spirits back to this plane to have them inhabit dead bodies, but it is actually ancient greek: Necro (The Dead) manteia (divination), which was later bastardised to Nigro-manteia (Black divination). Although this method is practised by a number of people who aren't practisioners of the dark arts (myself included) it is seem by many Witches today as being wrong, and if mentioned that you are a Necromancer among a group of Magick Practicioners, you would be likely to be almost shunned by a lot of them!

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StarlightTess
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:16 pm

Personally I belive dark magic to be that which has the intention of deliberatly causing pain or distress to another.
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:34 pm

Thanks for clarifying that. Smile I didn't mean to interupt the thread. I'll shuffle away onto the sidelines again now. Smile
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:19 pm

No, stay! I want peoples views and opinions!!

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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:26 pm

I don't have any valid opinions though Agares. Razz

OK, here's a question. Magik used in defence is not Dark (is it?) but what if the attacks on the person being rtected are so persistent and terrible that the defensive response would need to be strong enough to counter it and therefore potentially cause real harm to the attacker? This would still be defensive but would it have crossed the line over to the Dark side then?
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:58 pm

There are very thin lines between lightness and dark, and the older and more experienced you become, the clearer the lines are: sometimes you may need to use stronge defences to destroy someone elses spell, which may cause harm in the first place, but if you are doing it with the intent to protect yourself rather then harm thine enemy (hehehe old speak!) then it won't come back to you (aparantly!)

Like the last lines of the Wiccan Rede:

An' it harm none, do what ye whilt,
'Lest in thine own defence it be,
ever mind the Rule of Three..

Meaning if you're doing it in defence, your safe...ignorance is bliss in Wicca!

By dakr magick I mean using counter curses: rather then defending yourself, sending an equally bad spell in return of the first...

jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:20 pm

To be honest, i cant really say what i think is dark magick and white magick...if even such a thing exists.....i believe all magick is neutral, its raw power. Its what u do with it that defines what it is.

I guess.....anything that is deliberate harm of anyother....but then, i believe that sometimes it cant be helped. I'm not sure. In urself, you know what is right and wrong, and different people have different values....hmmm...tough question.

EDIT from Aoife: Sacha! You have been warned about the text speak - Yourself not urself - lol (Tomi started it - don't look at me like that)
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Era Amunet
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:36 am

I don't think that there is such a thing as "Dark Magick" as such as Magick is neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:18 pm

Late joiner to the dicussion but I think that Sabouki has it nailed! I also think that such terms as 'black' and 'white' magick are just terms that people invented as another attempt to classify things in terms that make them feel safe. This I don't understand- the overwhelming human urge to put everything in a box. The world is made up of uncertainties and shades of grey. Personaly I think that's what makes life so interesting and I wouldn't have it anyother way. (end of rant....for now)
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:36 pm

Nicely put Solvo, and I completely agree with you! No worries about late joining, any other questions or opinions....express!! EXPRESS!!!!!!
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Witch-In-Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:30 am

There is that old adage - "those who cannot curse, cannot heal" I guess the ability to do something doesn't mean you have to choose it. I personally think that there are dark sources of power, so magic may be unfathomable, but isn't necessarily neutral. It is hard to access pure power from a pure higher source and some practitioners think a lot of soul- refing and watching one's own intent needs to happen before magic can be practised. It is amazing how many spells backfire on people in some way or other! That saying -"be careful what you wish for" springs to mind again!!!!! I like the story of the witches in The New Forest practising defensive magic during the Second World War - i guess their magic couldn't be called neutral.
I think the dark sides of ourselves exercise enormous power over us - "Where there's fear, there's power" (another witchy saying), and my view is that one of the witch/druid/magical practitioner's soul goals is the alchemical transformation of this - to access healing and inspiration for ourselves and others...
(Note to self....has this ramble gone off topic???????!!!!!!!Sorry if it has! alien )
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:02 pm

Very well said Nicci, well said indeed...I remember the story about the Witches in WWII....7 covens wasn't it in the end? Practising against the Germans? lol Lovely fact I thought that was, although I believe they all died within 10 years of casting the spells or something!

And feel free to ramble, if this site didn't have ramblers, it wouldn't be half as busy!!!

Again, well said cheers

Logmadr...
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Aaria
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:27 pm

Personally, I don't think there's "black magic/k" or "white magic/k" just magick and how you intend it, really. "those who cannot curse, cannot heal" - really like that idea, suppose you have to know about both.


That thing about the witches in WW2 is really interesting, are there any books about it?
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:38 pm

Probably... lol
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Aurora
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:25 pm

What is this thing about witches in WW2 i tried looking it up but couldnt find anything, can someone fill me in pwease? xxx
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LunarCraft
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:05 pm

All I can remember hearing is that a lot of covens agreed to combine forces (in the New Forest, I believe) ... they raised power collectively and caused the Germans a massive defeat.

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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:26 pm

I believe it was something like 12 covens joining forces (pun totally included) and wiping out the German counterparts, which work, but most of the English covens didn't survive due to huge depletion....of course, this could all by myth, or not!
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:27 pm

Magic is a force, just like electricity is, to me. Therefore it is neither 'white' nor 'black'. It is intent that counts in magic. A working done with malice, hate, that would be a dark working.

I have cursed. A firnds wife was being stalked via the internet and in real life. It had been going on for over 4 years. I raised a Nidstang (a runic curse pole) to drive him away from her. It raised the spirits of the land (called landvaettir) against him - they would give him no peace while he continued his stalking of her, and also drive him from this land - not just from the physical land though, from the internet as well. About 6 months later the attacks against her via the net had stopped and he hasn't been heard from for a few years now.

I deliberately set out to curse him, and did so. But was it dark? Not to me. It was a self-limiting curse, only active while he pursued his vendetta against my friend. It was an attack on him in defence of my friend and his wife who had suffered greatly due to this. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat, if the circumstances required it.

The Rede doesn't really concern me - I'm not Wiccan. What does concern me is living up to my own code of honour and ethics, which are based on Heathen principles rather than Wiccan ones
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:29 pm

OK, the first thing to make absolutely and crystal clear is that mo matter if it's dark, light, white, black or turquoise with pink spots magic is not spelled with a K. Alistair Crowley may have used this spelling but he just did it to sound grandiose, it does not mean he was correct and nowadays it is only used by individuals trying to be equally grandiose or those who simply don't know better.

Quote :
Like the last lines of the Wiccan Rede:

You are getting things mixed up Loggy boy Wink The Threefold Rule is not a part of the Rede but is a single line of which there are several versions but basically all read

Ever mind the Rule of Three, three times what thou givest returns to thee


Quote :
I don't think that there is such a thing as "Dark Magick" as such as Magick is neutral

Absolutely - It is how magic is used that matters

Quote :
7 covens wasn't it in the end? Practising against the Germans?

I am not sure where you do your reading Loggy Boy Wink but I suggest you look elsewhere. What you are referring to here is the so called "Cone of Power" that was raised by Gerald Gardner and other members of the New Forest coven in order to assist the defeat of Hitler. As the coven like the Cone is part of Wicca mythology and did not actually exist it is highly unlikely that anybody died as a result of it.

Quote :
of course, this could all by myth, or not!

Well done, you are not prepared to accept everything at face value - a valuable trait in understanding the history of Witchcraft
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:46 pm

Hmm...Personal opinions are, of course, welcome here, but the "magic is not spelled with a K" thing is just your personal opinion. I mean, that grates on you like when people use the word "blatently". "Blatently" is not a proper British word, it is an Americanism, the correct word is "Platently" in the English language, but no one seems to know that. Interesting point about the Cone of Power Amberlady, but the story I heard was definately about quite a few covens. It was probably a Chinese Whispers from the original....

Grimnir, very interesting story there. I agree with you that different situations call for different uses of Magic(k) (not trying to add grandeur, just accomodating peoples opinions Wink ). Nice replies from everyone Smile

Logmadr (or "Loggy Boy" apparantly Razz)
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PostSubject: Re: Darkness & Magick   Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:31 am

Well I like using the K and I hate Crowley so meh, I just think it looks better! Smile
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