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 Jesus=Mithras?

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Solvo Phasmatis
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PostSubject: Jesus=Mithras?   Fri May 16, 2008 5:23 pm

I don't know how many of you have heard of him, but Mithras was a Persian God who was taken over by the Romans. The origins of Mithraism stem from around 600 years before Christianity and have some uncanny similarities (plus I never saw Jesus and Mithras in the same room so it's looking a bit suspect!Suspect)
I wont go into the whole mythology (manly cos I can't be assed, look it up for yourself Razz) but some of the similarities include:
- Mithras was born on December 25th (I know Jesus is now said to have been born another time of year but the idea was still held)
- He had twelve companions (twelve disciples)
- He was known as "the good shepherd,” "the way, the truth and the light,” “redeemer,” “savior,” “Messiah." He was identified with both the lion and the lamb
- He was buried in a tomb and resurrected after three days (this was celebrated every year)
- Sunday was the sacred day
- He was known as the mediator between man and the Gods
- Even a Christian Priest thought they were one and the same. The Christian Father Manes- "Christ is that glorious intelligence which the Persians called Mithras ... His residence is in the sun" ....

....anyone else find all this just a little too coincidental? The list goes on and I encourage you to look it up as there are many differing opinions, but I thought it was an interesting point of discussion. So, what do ya think people?
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Sat May 17, 2008 8:10 am

The similarities are too many to be coincidental. Another example of how Christianity has stolen the concepts of their opposing religions. Mithraism has rivalled Christianity since the times of Rome and Greece, and before that Mithra would have been (and still is) an important Zoroastrian deity of India and Iran (Old Persia). Good post!
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Sat May 17, 2008 8:23 am

Thanks for that information, Solvo - a really good starting point. As VII states, the list just goes on and on and it really is well worth some further exploration.

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Jaska
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Sat May 17, 2008 9:23 am

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=22798180

jsut related.......
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Sat May 17, 2008 11:27 am

Hm I think this might be the guy who was mentioned in the bible and he was halfway through a miracle and one of the followers of Christ called upon God to put an end to it because he was a fake and the thing kinda stopped and it totally discredited him... hmmmm I shall look it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:22 am

Yep, the same similarities in 'son of god' stories have been echoed over centuries before christianity came along, from the Mayans through to the Egyptians.

Plagurism is not something that the christians were shy of when building the bible.
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:01 am

When exploring the history of religious growth it is easy to point the finger and say that one has stolen from the other but part of me thinks that it is not so simple as this. As a religion is spawned, it is done by people who would have been born with the previous major religion as a part of their society in which they grew. In this may, any religion is bound to share similar ideas with another. Also, when trying to persuade other to choose your religion, you will appeal to what they already know/believe. on the other side of it, people changing from one religion to adapt to knew ideas, may not want to leave certain aspects behind. I personally believe in a amalgamation of different ideas to suit my personal perspective, so why couldn't someone who feels the need to be excepted as part of an organised religion, still retain previous ideas.
On a less empirical note, couldn't similarities exist simply because they are derived from the same truth. Many religions may shown the same ideas because they have given by the same source. Maybe jesus and mithras seem so similar because this person existed and his story just changed slightly as it traveled (like Chinese whispers*). And maybe many religion believe in a/many higher-beings because they exist (also if you wanted to be psychological, because we all have the same basic need/urge to feel looked after).
These are just some thoughts of mine, I would love to hear other opinions so I'm not just rambling to myself Smile

*Does anyone know where this came from or if I can even say it any more (is it pc)?
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:34 pm

I believe there's a lot of merit in the theory that many revealed religions such as christianity have had there roots in earlier beliefs.

One of the theories I love about various son of god stories is the idea that many of them are idealised versions of the early sun worship beliefsbased on the constellations and the sun. Era Amunet posted a thread a long time ago the sun god similarities, I think she posted a YouTube link. It's fascinating to see comparisons that would have spanned many millenia prior to much later religions like christianity, judaism and islam. Perhaps this is the prime source of beliefs that you are theorising about?

With chritianity it's more straightforward to see where they originally picked the older ideas to add to the religion. The Council of Nicea specifically held a meeting to decide on what would go in the bible and even had to decide on who the messiah would be - this included Jesus, Zeus (edit: I think, can't remember), Krishna, Julius Caesar, Mithras and Horus. In crude terms, one of their goals was to make a religion that would appeal to a wider audience. This was certainly the case for Paul at the Council of Jerusulem when trying to appeal to a wider audience (i.e. gentiles, so they would have to drop many jewish traditions).

Horus' own story predates christianity and has a huge number of similarities to Jesus (12 disciples, 25th day of the 12th month, resurrection, virgin birth, similar miracles, etc, etc, etc) depending on the version of Horus' story you read. In turn there are a huge number of fascinating comparisons with the ancient sun worship beliefs and many of the old 'messiah' stories, 12 constellations, resurrections, son of god, etc, etc, etc.

Quote :
I personally believe in a amalgamation of different ideas to suit my personal perspective, so why couldn't someone who feels the need to be excepted as part of an organised religion, still retain previous ideas.

Your liberal belief system is the basis of how many people arrive at freethought, the value that I hold dear. The thing is, freethought and organised religion are clashing ideals. As the church has stated many times, 'Reason is the enemy of Faith'. To answer your last question though, doesn't it depend on which ideas the religion keeps? Many religious belief systems have homophobia, sexism and predjudice indoctrinated into them. Clearly this is a good thing for many 'believers' as it suits them - it certainly does not suit me or any one I call a friend. Your principle is sound as long as the people making decisions are like you - decent and principled. Unfortunately not everyone is this way inclined.
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:08 pm

There is a philosophical debate among professional Classicists about Jesus and Mithras. The theory is that Jesus was actually a magician, not the son of god. He just happened to have a big ego. One theory against them being the same person is that they are noted to be in two different separate locations at the same time. However, another theory is even though they were in different locations, historical propaganda could lie about the location or one of them, or the possibility of being able to teleport.

Will talk more soon...bye
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:56 pm

I cac't see the link that is shown earlier in this thread so apologies if this video is the same thing. This is one of the better videos that are out there about the Sun God and is directly relevant to this thread about Jesus and Mithras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQLD59fK_Iw
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:14 pm

*Jumps in with flaping arms*
jah thats the video i had in the other post!!


*runs away again*
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:43 pm

I thought it might be Jaska. Smile

There is another one I saw ages ago that is just brilliant (edit: it was on another forum, had more facts and figures related to all of the religions named in Jaska's video), but I've never found it again. Sad Never mind, I'll just have to keep looking.
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:36 pm

I just wanted to add, I find the theory interesting, mainly because of the comparisons drawn from various religious beliefs and their messiahs.

I *do* think that the conclusions that are made in this (and other) videos and written theories stretch the imagination a little far. For example, using the English language and making direct comparisons of linguistic use of names (such as sun set or 'Horus and hours') is pretty weak since the origins of these words were latin and greek, not egyptian or persian for example.

I can see that someone has reached a conclusion and then tries to fit anything around their theory rather than find complete evidence and then draw a conclusion from that without thinking it through properly.

I just wanted to add that, as I think it's important not to be led along by someone's sheer enthusiasm for a theory without analysing it properly yourself. Anyhow, that's my two-penneth worth. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:00 pm

although the name - horus itself is as far as i am aware, a latin version. as when horus was 'created' in egyptian language, they did not speak it, only drew it. Then during the time of ceasar and cleopatra, well i dont know, but someone found a method of communication between the two, most likely the romans creating words for the egyptian images.
if this was true, then i think that horus and hours are indeed compatible. but who knows Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:02 pm

Well Jaska, you're the linguist here so I can believe that it's a possible theory if you think that's the case. Be good to have some confirmation though to be sure. Smile

The other thing I wasn't sure about was the link about the cross in this film (which is also theorised elsewhere). I like the idea that the stars line up and are the three wise men or kings. I can see this as a phenomena that early worshipers could translate as astral bodies (I think that's the term - sorry if I'm wrong, stars are not my strong point!) that represent wise men or kings or gods or something. This could then be put into a mythical form that fits into some sort of messiah story, I get that too. Brilliant leaps of the imagination though (imho) and great story telling. How it becomes a universal story of messiahs in countries all around the world is also a fascinating question - could it be that merchants passed on the stories? Bards? Travelling religious people? I suppose we'll never know.
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:33 am

well, i dont claim to know about different languages and am very much an amature in this area...
But, i was just browsing through different sites, some say that the name horus is latin, some say its greek, used for the egyptian name -heru, har or hor.

also the egyptian for beloved i found out is 'Mery', used for 'beloved Neith' (horus' mother)
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:14 pm

Thanks for the video ook, certainly sparks the thought. Also I wouldn't take these theories as fact (I wouldn't do this with the religious adaptations so I wouldn't with the anti-religious theories). However, as all new ides (new to me) it's always good to hear. I particularly find the 'three kings as stars' part interesting. I can imagine how this would spark a tale such as the ones seen but millions of stories/myths have been created over the centuries, it is interesting that this one in particular seems to span so far...
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PostSubject: Re: Jesus=Mithras?   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:01 pm

I find examining myths, theories and beliefs thrilling. Watching how beliefs can ignite or influence other beliefs is thought provoking stuff. When compared to how religion, belief and non-belief has shaped our history it becomes even more compelling.
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