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Solvo Phasmatis
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PostSubject: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:45 am

I love the variations and similarities found in folklore all over the world. Most areas seem to have their own specific stories, yet similar ideas of creatures etc, have been found from different sides of the world from cultures that have never met. For example, dragons. Though each area had it's variations, the symbol of a fryling, fire-breathing beast were passed down in China, England and from many other cultures that had yet to meet.
Just wondering if people had any specific folklore stories that interested them or that they were brought up with?
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Amberlady
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:40 am

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the symbol of a fryling, fire-breathing beast were passed down in China, England and from many other cultures

Except that English &Welsh Dragons could originaly neither fly nor breath fire. Our Dragons evolved from a creature known as a Wrym or worm which was more like a giant snake or lizard, in fact there are sevreal stories such as "The Lambton Worm" where the creature is described as wrapping itself around victims rather like a constricting snake. In the late middle ages stories of Chinese dragons were being brought back by travellers and British story tellers saw the obvious sinarlarities of scales and teeth and aded the more interesting aspect of flight and firebreathing to our wyrms.

The origin of flying dragons is debatable, the Roman legions often had a symbol similar to our Wyrm that they called a Draco which was fixed to a pole by the head with the body and tail fluttering in the wind, the chinese have something similarwhich is widely seen in chinese festivals, although it is doutful they are of common origin they are probaly the origin of the flying dragon.
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Dorian
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:49 am

Can I ask, where do you find out these things Lady?
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:37 am

Where were wryms found? Sound like pythons........
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Amberlady
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:06 pm

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Can I ask, where do you find out these things Lady?
All over the place, I have a large library of my own, including some very rare books, I research things on the Internet, I talk to people, I attend seminars, in the past I have a member of a paranormal research team, basically I am always on the look out out for that little bit of extra information.

Quote :
Where were wryms found? Sound like pythons........
The stories can be found all over the UK and much of Northern Europe, the strange thing though, that I can't explain is that there is no evidence of large snakes or lizards anywhere in those aeas, so where did the original idea come from?
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:08 pm

Possibly invented to keep people in line???
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:10 pm

Amberlady wrote:
Quote :
Where were wryms found? Sound like pythons........
The stories can be found all over the UK and much of Northern Europe, the strange thing though, that I can't explain is that there is no evidence of large snakes or lizards anywhere in those aeas, so where did the original idea come from?

I know, such a temperate climate doesn't really give ideal conditions for things like that. Do you know specifically where? Any coastal areas?
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:43 pm

So are the mythical wyrms anything like the giant dune worm things?
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:31 pm

I think the most famous worm story is the one about the Lambton worm. Have a look here:
http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/legends/lampton_worm.html
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:53 pm

Thanks for that Ironwolf. the Lambton Worm is typical of these stories, with no flying or fire breathing.
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Nomada
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:06 pm

Long shot, I was just wondering if the coastal one's could have been tentacles washed up. Doubt it though. Sounds so python like. That's fascinating.
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:34 pm

Doutful Nomada, Worms are usualy portrayed as underground creatures, often they lived under hills
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:39 pm

Hmmm. Werewolves anyone? Very Happy What are your thoughts?
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Nomada
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:46 pm

I've got a lovely book about country customs throughout the year and their origins. It's great to read about them because quite a lot of them have died out over the years. Such a shame. I'll have to dig it out because it's got some interesting stuff relating to pagan festivals and old traditions.
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Im not sure that this fits under the heading of an actual folk story, but it is an interesting idea on Vampires.

I have heard that the myths behind Vampires orginate from a disease, the name of which escapes me at the moment. This disease causes a severe aversion to sunlight hence raather pale and deathly looking skin, it also causes to gums to receed, makeing the canines look bigger and more like fangs. This also causes bleeding of the Gums which gives the impression that the sufferer has just drank blood.

It is thought that the cause of this disease is gentetic and often results of inbreeding. A popular practice if the lords and ladies of rather distant domains didn't want to mingle with the local peasants.

Thus your vampire is born, a pale looking aristocrat, with poor oral hygene and a sly glint in thier eye when they look at thier cousin. Or the demonic undead, come to feast on blood.

I cant remember the source of this but it stuck in my mind as rather interesting, anybody else have theories?

Simon
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:14 am

Very nicely said Zephron, well told indeed....the name is eluding me too, but I have heard of this story....another common factor of regal inbreeding is haemophilia....nasty stuff!!
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Solvo Phasmatis
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:03 am

i have also hear this but have no idea as to how truethful it is but thought it was a very interesting theory- would explain alot.
VII- this has really been bugging me- what was the name of those celtic faeries your dad was on about?
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VII
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:54 am

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VII- this has really been bugging me- what was the name of those celtic faeries your dad was on about?

They're called ''boggarts'', babe. I not sure about the spelling... They aren't Celtic though,
I think they're from Lancashire.

Quote :
Hmmm. Werewolves anyone? What are your thoughts?

Although I'm a fan of the werewolf mythology and its use in the media, my personal belief is of a mental illness (maybe illness isn't the right word) called lycanthropy, where sufferers will assume the mentality of an animal (in this case wolf). Am I on the right track?


Last edited by on Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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VII
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:28 am

Does anyone know much about the Irish folklore around the Tuatha Dé Danann? I've heard lots of different accounts about them but still know very little about them...
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Zephron
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:15 am

The Tuatha de Dannans or tribe of Danu. Some say they are the very essence of celtic traditions.

They where a celtic tribe like many others, but more so. They invaded Ireland on Beltane and burned thier ships so as to create a mystical fog to conceal thier numbers and weapons. They managed to subjugate the Fir Bolgs, considered to be much more primaive and probably aboriginal.

They ruled Ireland for a while, and some would say that they still do despite being beaten by a Gaelic tribe the Milesians. Despite thier defeat, the de Dannan where still held in high regard by thier conquers because of thier skill in the arts and magic.

It is said that Amergin a bardic druid divided Ireland into two halfs. The top went to the Milesians whilst the tribe of Danu held sway over the bottom. This is not to be taken literally, it is more a mythic division, the Milesians where given the ground to till and toil over, whilst the de Danna where given in a sense the very essence of nature to guard, they where given the under world, the place thier magic and affintiy with nature dwelt, a place that people say the de Dannan originally came from. In this way Amergin managed to give the body land to the victorious celts, but gave the heart to the de Dannan, the more fitting rulers. Those who could better use the magic and wisely guard nature, those who supposedly held the keys to the underworld.

From there onwards the de Danna became the people of the Sidhe, not the Sidhe but the people of. The Sidhe where the powerful nexus points throughout Ireland of the natural wild energies the de Dannan thrived on. It is thought that this was when they became to be known as Faerie. It was there wrapped in nature that the de Dannan became myths, staying only to protect the earth and its essence. Considered thier main duty was to pass on the keys to he elements and the underworld that they had for so long protected, also known as the gifts of the Fey.

These are

The sword, from a point in Finias, now called Munster, this was attributed to Fire.

The cauldron, from a point in Murias, now Connaught, this was attributed to Water.

The stone, from a point in Falias, now Ulster, this was atttributed to Earth.

The spear, from a point in Gorias, now Leinster, this was attributed to Air.

Phew that was a bit longer than I thought and there is still so much more. Well if you made it throug that then good on you Smile .

The problem is that whilst most of the historical facts are true, so much of the true de Dannan nature has been lost that some of this an educated guess. (At least they were well educated these people, and probably got it right) So dont take it as completeley set in stone.

Simon
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:40 am

Excellent, Zephron - thanks for all the hard work you have put in here.

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VII
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:19 am

Nice one, Zephron. That was exactly what I needed! Cheers.
Smile
If you find time to write any more, I'd be very interested!
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Solvo Phasmatis
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:27 pm

Thanks for the spread of info Zephron! cheers Most intriguing. Tis a wealth of insight that I had not come across before. "You learn something new every day"- and forget it the next in my case! (as my mum would say- "I have the memory retention of a chocolate frog!") Smile
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Nomada
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:29 am

VII wrote:
my personal belief is of a mental illness (maybe illness isn't the right word) called lycanthropy, where sufferers will assume the mentality of an animal (in this case wolf). Am I on the right track?

Quite possibly. The phase of the moon really does have an effect on a persons state of mind (lunacy!). I think that has something to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Folklore   Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:19 am

what are people's thoughts on the faeries/fae/faries/fays/feys?
and banshees? who I think are a certian type of faerie.
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