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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 pm

Well, from a 'religion' point of view, someone comes along and says "I have the perfect God for you, come and join my religion" so someone says, "Why should I?". The religious person could say " Err, well, because, err, well I like my god, he's alright you know and he is the one true god you know." or the person could say "Well, worship my God or be damned to hell and burn and suffer at the hands of Satan and his minions." it kind of gives people the feeling that they shouldn't risk not worshipping this god because they don't want to damned forever.

From a bible point of view, the biblegod created everything and is supposed to be all powerful. If this were true then the biblegod would be able to do something about it but lets face it, without a so-called evil counterpart, who would get the blame for bad things and why would people have to turn to biblegod?

<EDIT> Oh, amnd how many deaths in the bible attributed to Satan? I think it is 9 or 10. All of which had permission from biblegod so you could say zero. How many people killed by or for god in the bibel? The ones that can be counted exceed 3 million. The actual numbers in slaughter or drowning cannot be counted (the earth being flooded and everyone being drowned after all) means the actual numbers make it into the billions. <End of edit>

The other thing is 'Freewill'. If you read the bible closely, freewill has very little to do with christianity. Worship biblegod or be damned, smited, raped, murdered, have your children murdered, condemed, stoned, banished, etc, etc, etc. Lots of examples of this throughout the bible. Exodus from Egypt - biblegod raised pharoah up and hardened his heart then put in place his downfall is a simple example.

As for a 'loving' god and jesus being about love as well, that's a laugh. Here are a couple of jesus loving statements (if you believe he existed of course).

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

" 49 I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." (Luke 12:49-53 NASB)
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Aurora
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:56 am

Gosh that jesus fellow really hates mother in laws! I think he had family issues as a child...possibly because his mother cheated on his father when he was a child and got pregnant...........
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Dorian
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:57 am

Something else... the population came from adam and eve right, well next you have all that incest to get to where Noah and his family existed, then the world was wiped clean once more, and you have only Noah and his family as a source of gene's... tha's ah darn lotta inbreedin der.

And whenever Ook says 'biblegod' It makes me think of a superhero in tights, mask, spandex, you get the idea Razz

Oh and, who here thinks the idea of multiple Gods/Creators is better then just one?, I like it, More Gods!, More fun!, Yaaaaaay! (I'd be suprised if you understood the reference)
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:30 am

That's a good point Dorian! My mum got the cane in school for mentioning the inbreeding thing! Then again humanity is inbred, it's thought the human population was apparently below 10 at one point in the distant past. Can't remember where I read that though so don't know how reliable it was, will have to go find it again.

Edit: Not reliable at all, can't find it. There was something called the Toba catastrophe theory which said the population could have gone as low as 2000.


Last edited by on Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:54 am

If thats from a scientific point of view, i'm guessing that would be at a stage where we were still similar enough to our ancestors to breed, but different enough to classify as human. maybe...
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:06 pm

Not quite. Very much same species. It is possible for populations to fall to very low numbers, inbreed and not show any ill effects. All the house sparrows in North America decend from just 50 individuals. Just depends on how good the genetic variation is. If your population is carrying lots of genetic diseases you're buggered. If it's healthy and has lots of variation you can inbreed and sometimes be OK. They call them bottlenecks. Cheetahs ahve gone through it, that's why they're so genetically similar.How the f**k did I get onto this?

Anyway, someone in work brought in a calendar they got for Christmas. It was done by the creationists. It's so funny how they try to make stuff fit themselves, like the explanation for how fossils can't be millions of years old Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:29 pm

Hehehe yay terms I have actually heard of! Peters dad is a boiologist and it really good with these things, he used to invite relgious people in and ask them so many question he actually made a few leave seriously questioning their faith!!!! hehe frankly I think thats a BIT mean! My mum had a copy of the family tree by the christians from when they went to bethelhem and its hilarious it goes adam and eve.......then MIRACULOUS every generation it says *wife* or *husband* and gives no origin for them just says they're from a different family! hahaha thought it was soooo funny! xxx
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing That's excellent!!! Did said husband and wife appear out of thin air do you think?

What do you think of Richard Dawkins? Anyone see his documentaries on religion and new age beliefs? He's such as fundamentalist atheist. Mods, feel free to move this post and others coz I've got off on a biiiig tangent.
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:48 pm

Fundamentalists of ANY kind peeve me off even the atheist kind, they just seem so stressy and pissy and everything. You just wanna smack them and/or cheer them up! x
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:56 pm

I do like him. I at least admire him as a scientist. He is so rational about everything, but it's not always good when it leads to certain areas of your mind being closed off. What I do like him for is his scientific explanation of why racism is ridiculous.
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:03 pm

No idea who he is, so i sharnt pass judgement. I shall have a peek for him when Im finished revising about oh wonderful Mussolini. x
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:11 pm

Oh no, the documentaries he did were excellent! Maybe they're online?
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:32 pm

Quote :
What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

Dawkins is very good on some stuff, and he's an excellant philosopher. I do have some serious problems with some of his logistics though. If he can disprove something and therefore be skeptical about it, then fair enough, good for him, but when he takes something like religion and says that it can't be explained, he then goes on to say that it cannot work.

We watched a video in philosophy where he was basically dissing spirituality and new-age type stuff. (His arguing against dowsing was actually quite impressive, but there are replies). Anyhoo, he seemed to be saying that as he could see no 'logical' reason why it should work, anytime it did was coincidence, and it was superstitious (and harmful) to believe otherwise.

Actually it was really funny. There's this really strong christian in my class (who, don't get me wrong, is lovely) and he was like "Well I agree with every he says about this pagan stuff" (he said pagan 'cause he was talking to me at the time and we were discussing my beliefs) "but it's when he applies the same theory to christianity and then says that's not true either that gets me." What a smuck! lol.

I just read that back through. I'm sure I had a point when I started writing. Ooops...
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:37 pm

Hahahah jackass! (him not you!) hehe. x
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Ook!
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:10 pm

Dorian wrote:
And whenever Ook says 'biblegod' It makes me think of a superhero in tights, mask, spandex, you get the idea Razz
rofl

Dorian wrote:
Oh and, who here thinks the idea of multiple Gods/Creators is better then just one?, I like it, More Gods!, More fun!, Yaaaaaay! (I'd be suprised if you understood the reference)
biblegod states that 'he' is the one true god but does not state 'he' is the ONLY god. Interestingly, the christians gave biblegod gender from what I understand. If I remember correctly the biblegod of the Jews was/is genderless.

Without wanting to jump about a bit on this topic, did you know that the Jesus character was basically stating that people go back to the old Jewish ways as they had lost their way? Think about this, Judaism ain't christianity! For a start, it is forbidden to eat meat killed in a certain way AND men must be circumsised in order to be 'saved'.

Anyhow, jumping forward approx fifty years after the alleged death of Jesus, a man called Paul on the road to Damascus had a vision following an event that is disputed from what I understand - some say he fell of his donkey and hit his head, others say he just hit his head. The vision was of Jesus (who he never met) and this led to him moulding the early part of christianity where changes were made to the old Jewish ways in order to make it easier and more attractive for gentiles to join the new religion. One of the most important changes was losing the need for circumsision and the ability to eat meats not permitted by Jewish law. Much of what was needed in the new religion was put forward, debated and argued at the Council of Jerusalem.

Thinking about this a man hits his head, has a vision of someone he never met then goes about obliterating an ancient religion to make it easier for non-Jews to join in. If someone came up with this these days they wouldn't even get a mention in the local free newspaper because the y would be laughed out of the news office!

Food for thought to begin with. There's more juicy bits to come in the same vein. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:16 pm

From what I've read and seen of Dawkins he is a clever man but he is a Fundy nonetheless. His arguments against a 'god' also appear to be more 'christian-centric' when he attacks religion publically (certainly in the interviews and lectures I have seen he does not even mention paganism or other religions) but perhaps that is because he was aiming the 'talks' at US audiences in particular at the time. His logic also does not apply to the same old atheist problem of answering the issue of where the energy or matter that enabled the Big Bang to occur in the first place came from. An answer I have never met a single atheist able to answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:24 pm

It has been argued that the circumcision and the meat thing most probably came from hygiene and storage reasons! I.e. it was easier to keep it clean and disease free and meat couldnt be refrigerated and might go off and be harmful!

I havent met an atheist who can explain what caused the big bang but ive found one or two that argue the toss that it cant be possible as what was there before etc etc and I had a conversation today and one guy said apparently if you can FIND antimatter you can prove god exists! Very interesting me thinks x
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:10 pm

That anti matter statement sounds like it could be a first cause argument. It says everything has a cause and the very first cause was god. But this is nonesense, because if everything has a cause then so did the first one, and so on, and on, and on etc, so there is neverending causes!
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:14 am

When I took a philosophy at college we did the philosophy of religion which I found so funny at times. E.g. The ontological argument- god is perfect, a predicate of being perfect is to exist, therfore god must exist! If you say so.... Laughing
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Dorian
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PostSubject: Re: Bible study   Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:34 pm

A few things i've heard, for one there theoritcally should be the same amount of antimatter as matter, but for some reason we are unable to observe any, not even the effects that should be created by its existance, if you want more explaination Pm me.

In the bible there are actual references that there are other God's, but as Ook! said the BibleGod is the "true" god.

Richard Dawkins is rather well known for his book 'The Blind Watchmaker' which is used to combat William Paley's watchmaker Analogy. I learnt about him in Philosophyyyy....
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