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 Veg*n Climate March - December 2007

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PaganVegan
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PostSubject: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:20 pm

Please forward to veggies and vegans across the UK:
Veg*n Climate March 2007
Saturday 8 December - London
http://veggieclimatemarch.50webs.com/

Be part of history in London! Be part of the biggest ever mobilisation of vegetarians and vegans on environmental grounds!! Veg*nism is the solution to many of the catastrophies facing the planet - it`s time to tell the world!!

Join the march to:
Demand that world leaders stop propping up the animal farming industries that cause climate change!
Raise awareness amongst environmentalists and the general public that their choice of diet is critical to the survival of the planet!!
Upto 30,000 environmentalists are expected to join the National Climate March on Sat 8th December 2007 to "demand that world leaders take the urgent action we need to prevent the catastrophic destabilisation of global climate". The National Demo in London will be one of many demonstrations on climate taking place all around the world on the same day ( see here ), midway through the UN Climate Talks in Bali.

Veggies & vegans should be there in our 1,000`s, to demand that world leaders recognise that a massive proportion of climate change is caused by livestock farming and the production of meat/dairy products. World leaders must stop supporting the animal farming/food production industries responsible for this devastation and begin to scale them down before it`s too late, or ultimately, we`ll all pay the price!!

What to bring with you
Please bring leaflets, banners, placards, costumes, props and your friends!!

Transport
Coach and minibus transport will be available from all over the UK. Please see the Campaign against Climate Change website for a list of contacts. Alternatively, why not organise your own veggie/vegan coach or minibus!! Let us know the details and we`ll display them on our website.

Help to publicise the event
We have produced a leaflet and poster to help promote the event. Please download, copy and distribute them across the UK. Please also forward this email across the UK.

More details
For many more details and updates, please see our website http://veggieclimatemarch.50webs.com/


The Campaign for Eco-Veg*nism
Because our choice of diet is critical to the survival of the planet
info@veggieclimatemarch.50webs.com
http://veggieclimatemarch.50webs.com/



Midlands Vegan Campaigns
For the benefit of animals, people & the planet

MVC, PO Box 10202, Redditch, Worcs. B98 8YT
Tel: 01527 458395
Email: info@veganmidlands.org.uk
Web: http://www.veganmidlands.org.uk/
List: https://lists.rbgi.net/mailman/listinfo/midlandsvegancampaigns
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matt32
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:20 am

Hiya paganvegan

Having read your post its left me with a few questions.Surely 30000 people driving to london from all over the country is going to be pretty bad for the enviroment anyway would it not be better to organise local marches or even get 30000 people to post a letter to the m.p's concerned on the same day.That would certenly get there attention 30000 letters through the post box.

Can you also explain how livestock farming makes so much greenhouse gasses?
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:21 am

To put it bluntly, because of how much methane cow's release...farting and all...

jocolor
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LunarCraft
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:01 pm

What Logmadr is trying to say is that cows and sheep break wind ...!

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matt32
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:41 pm

Londons doomed then 30000 bean eaters walking the streets lets hope nobody lights a fag........kaboooom
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Annie
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:56 pm

matt32 wrote:
Londons doomed then 30000 bean eaters walking the streets lets hope nobody lights a fag........kaboooom

lol! rofl lol! rofl

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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:33 am

Well actually its not the cows farting that affects the atmosphere! mainly its the fact people burn down trees and clear forests for grazing land then move on and leave it. So not only are they bruning thousands of trees but also they dont replace them so the trees stop converting the carbon dioxide. there are lots of other reasons as well!
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:31 pm

So it would proberbly be better to ask to goverments to teach the farmers better land managment rather than trying to get them to stop animal farming???
Im all for protesting for the climate but i think it is unrealistic to think the world will stop eating meat Even if the farming of animals was cut by just a few percent this would have a massive knockon effect on the arable farming world because that supplies the food for the animals.British farmers are having a tough enough time as it is they dont need to be told they have to rear fewer animals and grow less wheat ect on top.

My view is stick to the enviromental argument because people will think its just a bunch of veggies kicking off and will detracked from the real point of the march.
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Logmadr
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:48 pm

Also, I believe this march is a little hypocritical: we got to be the highest race in the food chain through eating meat, and I believe if we stopped eating meat, the world would be overrun: we would still need cows for milk, sheep for clothes and the like, and we wouldn't be able to slaughter them...I believe the meat/farming situation is alright as it is: protest to free slaves and child labour in 3rd World countries, but I believe the Agricultural System is good as it is...

Logmadr...
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:01 pm

Hear Hear

Protest agaist pollution not my bacon butty
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:39 pm

ok. I know ALOT about global warming and climate change, as one of my best friends is very GRRR towards it.....

But the production of ddairy/milk is a new cause to me.

In one of my geography exams i actually wrote 'make cows stop farting' as an answer to stop climate change........i found it funny....as did my teacher, LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:18 pm

The livestock sector accounts for 18% of global greenhouse
gas emissions - more than transport, which emits 13.5%"

Where do they get this rubbish they seriously expect you to beleive this.That is what annoys me they pull statistics out of thin air.The climate debate i think has been hijacked by the greenhouse effect what about pollution in general i.e rubber factories making tyres spueing out poison the oil that has to be changed in cars it cant be reused so to say the livestock sector is more damaging than transport is complete BULL.

Atleast the animals give something back to the earth that actualy nourishes the soil as far as i know cars dont do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:25 pm

WHo is sad enough to monitor livestock's anal emissions?!

jocolor
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:30 pm

30000 veggies by all accounts
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:28 am

For those not quite so clued up, you might find the following information helps you to understand a little better:

The Earthday Network is a non-political organisation who's goal is to educate all parts of society on what they can do to help the planet. Their website, www.earthday.net, provides a environmental footprint calculator from which you can calculate the number of hectares required to sustain your lifestyle and hence how many planets would be required if everyone lived like you.

In the UK the average environmental footprint is 5.8 hectares. If we divided the planet among the world's population and each was given an equal part we would all get only 1.8 hectares.

If you eat meat and diary every day but your food is mainly local and unprocessed you will require 1.6 hectares to sustain your eating habits. If you are vegan you will require just 0.5 hectares.

If we take the above meat eater and change their diet to a mainly imported and processed one, their food footprint alone climbs to 1.9 hectares, a figure that is beyond the 1.8 hectares available to every citizen of the planet. If we now change the vegan diet to mainly imported and processed food the land requirement stays at 0.5 hectares. Air miles are not a significant factor for vegan food. The adoption of a vegan diet is far more beneficial for the environment than choosing to follow a local, unprocessed meat-based diet.

Is changing your diet significant compared to other factors in your lifestyle?

25 hours of flying a year adds 1.5 hectares to your footprint. Moving to a vegan diet is similar to saving 25 hours of air travel a year.

Giving up the average car and replacing the journeys with public transport would reduce your footprint by just 0.7 hectares. Adopting a vegan diet is far more important than abandoning your car and I would expect, given the choice, most would want to hold onto their cars rather than dropping animal products, though both are good moves for the planet.

Changing from a 4 litre 4x4 to a typical saloon car would save 0.9 hectares and changing from that 4x4 to a hybrid would save around 1.7 hectares. Moving to a vegan diet is similar to replacing one of the most thirsty cars on the market to a hybrid.

At the Friends of the Earth Conference 2005 a motion was adopted to "consider recognising the need to promote plant based diets and encourage a reduction in meat, fish and dairy consumption on environmental grounds"

Above statistics not "plucked out of the air".

I also choose to live by the rede of 'an it harm none, do what thou will'. This extends to all sentient beings.

If I were of the Christeo-Judean or Islamic faith, I might believe (some what arrogantly, but each to their own) that man was formed in the image of 'God' & therefore, that we somehow have Dominion over the Earth & therefore all it's inhabitants.

Since I don't accept this theology, to use animals for my own use, whether that be for food, clothing (it's perfectly easy to live without leather, wool & silk by the way) or for cosmetics/cleaning products, I therefore choose to live a vegan lifestyle.

It is an important part of my 'faith' & I would NEVER force my views on another. If I'm asked about it though, I will not apologise for my opinions & knowledge.

I do not appreciate being riduculed & I posted the original post merely as I thought it might be of interest to any vegetarians or vegans here. Lots of pagans also live this way.

I'm always slightly amused & yet baffled by the hostile reactions (by individuals who eat meat or aren't actively trying to prevent environmental destruction) which are provoked by another individual simply & quietly living an ethical life & not apologising for it. Surely if one is content with their own beliefs, they shouldn't react this way? I certainly don't make jokes about, not attack anyone for eating meat or flying several times a year. I can only assume that these irate individuals are somehow threatened & fear they may have face up to something they may have toyed with in their minds, yet aren't ready to make any changes about.

If one doesn't respect the Earth & it's inhabitants, what is left that allows one to call oneself a pagan? Waving an athame around & acting all mysterious?
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:45 am

Quote :

I also choose to live by the rede of 'an it harm none, do what thou will'. This extends to all sentient beings.

I can understand your argument for this but you can't do a thing in this world without harming a sentient being,
walking on grass you will step on bugs
The computer your using to post on this thread is using electricity produced from the burnign of fossil fuels adding to climate change too.

I think the members of this forum don't really mean to make a joke more offer the point of view that although totally in your right to protest its a bit like fighting a losing battle as it really is extremely unlikely that farmers will stop animal farming.

I think its aweseom that you are vegan and that you are happy with that but I am a meat eater always have been always will be, its the way humans have always been However i do try to only buy local produce but as a student with an extremely limited budget this isn't always the case.

Quote :
, not attack anyone

Quote :
If one doesn't respect the Earth & it's inhabitants, what is left that allows one to call oneself a pagan? Waving an athame around & acting all mysterious?

what is that if not attacking? Just because we choose to eat meat and don't choose a vegan lifestyle are you saying that we don't have the right to call ourselves pagan?
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matt32
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:53 am

Quote :
Quote :
Air miles are not a significant factor for vegan food

Surely air mile are air miles no matter what???

Quote :
25 hours of flying a year adds 1.5 hectares to your footprint. Moving to a vegan diet is similar to saving 25 hours of air travel a year

Ive not been in a plane for 30 years

[quote]
Quote :
Giving up the average car and replacing the journeys with public transport would reduce your footprint by just 0.7 hectares

I dont own a car and walk from worle to town twice a week.i only use public transport when its unavoidable

[/quote
Quote :
]I'm always slightly amused & yet baffled by the hostile reactions (by individuals who eat meat or aren't actively trying to prevent environmental destruction
)



i dont think anyone was being hostile yes i do eat meat from local suplliers but i allso grow about %40 of my own veg i try too plant at least one tree every year i planted four this year.Im allso of the opinion that if people are going to eat meat then they should at least once in there life make thee kill so they can appreciate what goes into it because when its all packaged in tesco its far removed from the reality of it.


[quote
Quote :
]If one doesn't respect the Earth & it's inhabitants, what is left that allows one to call oneself a pagan? Waving an athame around & acting all mysterious
?

iWhat about all the pesticides used to kill pests on crops and that goes into the waterways and kills the fish??I feel that i do respect the earth and try to do my bit im a meat eater yes but that does not mean i dont respect the earth.As for waving my athame around and acting mystical you could not be further from the truth.Im sorry if you thought i was being hostil my original post was because the link you gave did not explain anything in regards to why farming meat was so bad.I still think the idea of stopping is unrealistic but respect your view.

One thing i will say is there are are lots of organizations,websites,books and magazines all coming up with statistics but as yet i have not read two that agree with each other.which is why i say are they being plucked out of thin air as a scare tactic to bring on change?


Last edited by on Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:19 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:56 am

i dont know what happened to that post but im sure you understand
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PostSubject: Re: Veg*n Climate March - December 2007   Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:58 pm

Pagan Vegan - thank you very much for posting the original notification and ...

thank you to everyone who has shared their views on this thread.

However, I now feel the time has come to draw a line under the debate (obviously the debate continues) on this forum within this thread. I am, therefore, locking this topic.

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